Human Design and Grief Healing with Julie Cluff

Rebecca:

Today I have a really fun guest on the podcast. Her name is Julie and I
reached out to Julie before a live business event that I was going to be
attending in Dallas way back. And I believe this was even before I was
fully certified as a Life Coach. But Julie was in a Facebook group that I
was in and it was actually a course that we were both in together. And I
noticed that she was in The Grief Space and I was also at the time in The
Grief Space. And so, I just asked her if she would like to have dinner with
me and we could talk about our businesses and what were the different
things we were doing. We had a similar niche and similar topics. So, that's
how we got started knowing each other. And one thing I want to say is live
events have really helped me in building long-term connections with people.

Rebecca:

So, since that live event, Julie and I have kept connected. And when I
started in the Human Design Space, she reached out with interest to see
about what her Human Design said about her and how it could help her in her
business. And that has been a really fun journey to help because she also
joined my group, so that was fun. So, today I just wanted to bring her on
because also I wanted her to let us know what she's doing in The Grief
Space. I think her business has grown tremendously in a different way since
I first started talking with her about what was happening. She's written a
book, she has created a program, and it's really fun to talk about that.
Even though it's a grief topic, it's super fun to talk about business
growth and how she's helping more people than ever. And also, fun fact,
she's a Projector. So, let's get started on today's interview.

Rebecca:

Welcome to Beautifully Bloomed, the podcast where we explore how to break
you out of the box of rules and beliefs that are holding you back from the
life you are meant to live. I'm your host, Rebecca Tervo. Join me as I
share mindset tools, coaching conversations in Human Design, to help you
uncover your unique gifts and create the life, relationships and business
you desire.

Rebecca:

Julie Cluff is an Inspirational Speaker, Author, International Grief Coach
and the host of the popular Build a Life After Loss podcast. Julie is the
Founder and Director of Build a Life After Loss, which is a company that's
dedicated to helping those who are grieving to find hope and healing. She's
the author of Miracles in the Darkness: Building a Life After Loss.

Rebecca:

So welcome, Julie! Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

Julie:

I'm excited to be here!

Rebecca:

Yay! So, we get to talk about a lot of fun things. Number one, How did we
meet? From your perspective, when did we meet? I can't remember the date.
Maybe you remember the year even, but yeah.

Julie:

It has to have been...three years ago?

Rebecca:

Maybe.

Julie:

Does that sound right?

Rebecca:

Yeah. We were in a program together first and we met through a program.

Julie:

Right.

Rebecca:

Then we were at Brooke's live event.

Julie:

Yup.

Rebecca:

But we've-

Julie:

We met online and I think you reached out and said, Hey, you're a grief
coach, too. We should talk. And so we set up a phone call and I was just
like, I could just feel the energy buzzing. I'm like, This is so exciting.
I'm talking to somebody else that's doing something similar.

Rebecca:

Yeah...

Julie:

Sorry about that. Somebody knocked on our door and our dog is excited.

Rebecca:

Yes. Because at the time, I was doing grief coaching. Oh, here's the other
thing that resonated. Both of us were doing grief coaching because we both
lost children.

Julie:

Yes.

Rebecca:

Which, there's such a resonance with other people who've lost children
because it's not something you should ever have to go through, so it seems
hard to find people to talk to.

Julie:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

You've had that experience, too. So, yeah. So we were both. That's why we
resonated, I think at first, was like, Oh! She lost-

Julie:

[crosstalk 00:04:13] I think so too. And I remember from our first
conversation, you talking about writing the book that you wrote. And I was
in that process of thinking about writing a book. And so that was really
interesting to me that you'd written this book. And I ended up investing in
the same program that you had invested in that helped me to write my book.
And I'll never forget you saying that you started writing your book and you
felt like it was just in there and it just came out. And that's pretty much
how my book felt, too.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Like it was waiting to be written. It's like, Hurry up, get going,
come on. Because this deep calling is pushing you forward.

Rebecca:

Oh, that's so amazing!

Julie:

I feel like when I finished writing the book is really when my business
started. Even though I started before then. My book came out a little over
a year ago. That was when it really just felt like, Okay, I'm in this
space, I'm doing this. Yeah.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Now you have it. So yeah. So you're currently still doing that. So
then we met at the live event. So we're continuing on with the story. So we
met at the live event because we're like, Oh, Well, Hey, You're going, I'm
going, Why don't we meet up? And then we had dinner at the steak restaurant
that was so yummy. And remember you and I were gabbing and they kept coming
by to like, Are you okay?

Julie:

We're like, Yes, we're fine, leave us alone, we're talking. We have a lot
to talk about.

Rebecca:

We were so in our own little world. It was like, Stop bothering us! It was
so annoying. I know, they're trying to serve us.

Julie:

They were training somebody. They were trying to be a good example of
taking care of people, I think. And we're like, Oh yeah, we're fine, leave
us alone.

Rebecca:

We're trying to catch up here.

Rebecca:

Yeah, so that was super fun because I remember spending most of that, I
think, with you. I think we spent a lot of time together there, so that was
really fun. And then we just stayed in contact and what's interesting is
you, Why did you come to your first Human Design session? Because I
remember you were like, Hey, so-and-so, now I can't remember who the
so-and-so was, but, something about Human Design.

Julie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've stayed in touch and I've watched your business
evolve and I've continued in The Grief Space and really embedded into that
space and in my program and so forth in that space. But I've watched you
evolve what you're doing, which has been really fun to watch. And we've had
conversations over time about it. And then I listened to a couple episodes
of your new podcast and I'm like, What is this she's doing? So I just
picked up the phone and called you. I don't know if you remember that. And
I just called and I said, So what is this thing that you're doing? Explain
this to me.

Rebecca:

You're right. You did call. And so few people...I don't talk on the phone
very much anymore. Isn't that funny? Unless it's my husband or one of my
kids. Really, I just don't talk on the...People, who talks on the phone
anymore? And when you called I'm like, Hey, Julie's calling me. When people
call, I'm like, Oh, and I pick up like, Hello? Really, we still talk on the
phone? That was so funny. Now I do remember, we did have a conversation and
that's, during that conversation, you were like, Well, I think I should
have a session or something. I remember that. Yeah. That's how it came
about. So you were curious. Yeah. And ever since then, you joined my, I
think we did a couple of sessions together, maybe four sessions together,
then you joined my group. So yes. And now I saw that you're actually going
to study some Human Design for yourself so that you can help your clients
with it. True?

Julie:

Yeah. True. I have spent this summer studying Human Design. I have read
about every book I can get my hands on, looked things up. I've looked at my
kids' charts and I've found that I have a knack for seeing a chart and
seeing what they need and how it connects.

Julie:

So kind of when it started was my daughter was mentioning that she was
having trouble sleeping. My adult daughter, she's got kids and everything.
And I said, Hmm...And it just like clicked in my brain. I wonder what her
Human Design Chart looks like and how that could feed into it. And then
that same night, my son who's 29 said, "You know, I'm having some health
issues." And I was like, Hmm, I wonder. And so I pulled their charts. And
then that led to me pulling the other kids' charts. And I actually had
one-on-one meetings with each of them and shared these little tidbits, like
this is why you're having trouble sleeping. This is what you can do to help
yourself sleep. This is why you're experiencing these little things that
you're experiencing. My other son, this is why, because both of them were
projectors.

Rebecca:

Oh, wow! Yes.

Julie:

And then my other son's a Generator and he had an open head and an open
route, which is why he feels so much pressure. And so we had these short
conversations and I didn't do a full thing like this is what's, but I just
picked out these pieces in their chart that would explain why they were
having the current experience they were having. And for example, my one
son, he is basically a workaholic. He has his own business. He's been
hesitant to hire people. He's a Projector. I'm like, You are not meant to
work in this form. You are meant to hire people and to delegate that work
and to, and I think that just really, because he was doing a lot of
artificial things to keep his energy up. A lot of caffeine.

Rebecca:

Yeah. For sure.

Julie:

And I was like, This is not going to end well for you if you keep this up,
so.

Rebecca:

Did you tell him your Projector story about burnout?

Julie:

I did. Yeah, I did.

Rebecca:

It would be really awesome for Projectors who have Projector parents, that
they get some learning from that. Right?

Julie:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Rebecca:

Yeah, because we are a house full, I don't know if you've heard me say this
before, but we have six people in our family. Five of us are Generator
types, Generator or Manifesting Generators. And then one is a Projector.
Well, it's so interesting to look back because I didn't find out he was a
Projector til a couple of years ago. It's interesting to look back over his
life and be like, Ohhh! It's like, Oh! Really? No wonder. And it's just, if
you knew this stuff when your kids were born, wouldn't that be interesting?

Julie:

Right? Exactly. It would have changed everything. And when I looked at my
one son's chart, he had completely open centers except for two. And that
made so much sense. And I thought about the fact that, I homeschooled my
kids, and with this particular son, I homeschooled him all the way through
High School. And then he got invited into a profession that he loves right
now and that just really resonates with and really loves. And it's so
perfect for him. And as I looked at that, when he was growing up, he was
the one that really kept me homeschooling because my husband and I both
felt like he was going to be so influenced by his surroundings.

Julie:

Interesting that we recognized how influenced he was by the people he
surrounded himself with. Luckily, because of homeschooling and because of a
good group of friends, that really was what he needed. He needed to be in
that home environment with a select number of friends that influenced him
for good and not in a huge...The high school my kids went to in Houston was
like a college campus.

Rebecca:

Wow.

Julie:

It was 5,000 students.

Rebecca:

That's a little overwhelming.

Julie:

Way overwhelming.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca:

So my son, who's a Projector, who also only has two centers defined, our
school is much smaller than that, but he did go through school, but I could
tell the difference between him and my other kids. And it's super
interesting how we dealt with that. Now there's differences in Projectors.
There's Energetic Projectors. There's...so my son isn't an Energetic
Projector. So I know this isn't true for all Projectors so that's why I'm
saying that. I know some Projectors who could easily love school. They
could do all the things. They were the Valedictorian. I've had Projectors
tell me that. But they were indifferent. They had the energy centers and he
didn't. So there's a difference there where he really had some issues with
schoolwork and we hired a tutor for him.

Rebecca:

I just didn't know that his energy was so different. I, honestly, me being
high achiever, go, go, go, Manifesting Generator, line one, learn all the
things. And he was a 6-3, by the way. He's a 6-3 Projector. You're a 3-6,
but he's a 6-3.

Julie:

Wow!

Rebecca:

Which is so interesting. So there's just a difference in the way our energy
works. And if I would've known that, I think it would have explained a lot
to me instead of me being like, What did I do wrong as a parent? All the
things you think when somehow he's not how I think he should be, which is
just like me. Why isn't he like me?

Julie:

Well, and I'm also a Projector with six kids. So that is a lot. My oldest
is a Manifesting Generator and I always felt that she was just, she had so
many ideas-

Rebecca:

It's a lot.

Julie:

And she wanted to do them all at the same time. I can remember her coming
to me in High School and saying, Okay, so my friends and I, they had this
assignment at school to do some project. And she had decided that they
were...they had this group. And I think it was her because I don't think
she even knew these people very well. But she had decided that they were
going to go to this park and spend the weekend at this park and create this
big bonfire and do this big project. And I'm like, No...We are not doing
that.

Rebecca:

Yeah. She had a lot of energy for a lot of things, right?

Julie:

She had so much energy for so many things and I love that about her. And
it's fun now to be able to share with her, Hey, the reason that you do so
many things at one time is because of this and that's the way you're
designed, and that's what you're supposed to do. Don't try to do one thing
at a time.

Rebecca:

Yeah...Narrow it down.

Rebecca:

Yeah, What about your husband?

Julie:

He's a Generator, but we haven't talked very much about it.

Rebecca:

I'm just curious. Yeah. My husband is a Manifesting Generator like I am,
but we are, there's still differences. There's quite a few differences if
you look deeper in the chart, but yeah. Super interesting. So you haven't
told him yet. You haven't revealed.

Julie:

No, he'd be like, A what?

Rebecca:

What are you talking about? Yes...

Rebecca:

No, I've studied all of my family members. My kids all know, but my other
family members, like my sisters and my brothers and stuff. I don't tell
them, but I just know what their charts are. I'm studying them from afar.
I'm like, That's interesting. I don't want to force it on anybody, but Hey,
if anybody wants to know, I am willing to talk about it.

Julie:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Yeah, that's super fun to know. So, Human Design is so amazing for like
family dynamics and all of that. And I'm curious because when I first
started in the Human Design Space, I was still having some grief clients.
And I'm just curious if you've made any connections between, What can you
help people with in grief with Human Design? Have you started that thought
process?

Julie:

Yeah, I have dabbled in that a little bit. I'm just kind of getting started
in that as I'm finishing some certification and so forth, but for example,
I have one client who's a very young widow and she has young children and
they have special needs. And her husband's death was very sudden and she
often feels extremely overwhelmed, as you can imagine. But it was nice to
show her that as a Manifesting Generator, that she was going to be able to
handle all this, that her design was such that she could handle a lot of
input, a lot of irons in the fire at one time. Because I was amazed at her
capability to really manage everything as well as she was, even in that
space of grief. And I think understanding that...

Julie:

I was talking to a client today and I was sharing with her another client
who had lost a son. And when I was talking to her today about how when we
have our, what in Chakra terms we'd call our Heart Center or our G Center
connected to our throat that that does make us more susceptible to
criticism, if there's a greater impact. And I have that dynamic in my
Chart, too. So I feel that and I see that. And I feel like just
understanding that, it helps me. And this is what I was trying to share
with her, is just understanding that you might have that initial hit of Oh,
this is about me, but then just understanding that you can release it a
little faster going, Okay, that's just going to be my natural reaction, but
it doesn't have to be where I stay.

Rebecca:

Yeah. Right, just bringing awareness, even to different parts of their
design, will help in all areas of life, including grief. Right? Is what I
hear you saying.

Julie:

Exactly, it does. And for me, I look at this and I say. I really feel like
God's hand was in all of this for me, particularly because I did experience
this very sudden illness last Summer that has caused some problems for me
and I'm working through them and I'm healthy enough that I'm working and
I'm able to do my work, but I also know that I have to take care of myself.

Julie:

And I feel like in all of this, God has just been telling me through Human
Design and other things that I've studied and learned, This is who you are.
He's like, I need for you to understand who you are so that you can do the
work that you were called to do, and you don't hurt yourself. And that was
the gift that I was given through working with you, through the program, is
I am in such a peaceful, calm place in my business as a Grief Coach. And
recognizing that with my particular gifts and my particular design that I
don't have to work with dozens of clients. And I can do things a little bit
differently and I can choose to do things a little bit differently so that
I can preserve my energy and be effective.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Julie:

And that's what I love.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And what I love about Projectors is, you might hear Karen say this,
You're here for the other. So sometimes it's really hard for you to look at
yourself because actually you are here to focus on other people and really
dive into them and figure them out. And which, I was thinking for you,
being a Grief Coach, that's amazing. You are here for that. You're going to
be so interested in trying to figure out how can you help them move forward
and all of that.

Rebecca:

And what the downside of that is for you is that, Oh, but how can I just, I
need...You also need to focus on yourself. So that is the thing. You're so
focused on the other. Sometimes it's hard for you to come back and say,
Wait, okay, first of all, I need to get me in alignment over here so that I
can do the focusing on the other and helping them. Because you're here to
help us work. Projectors are just here to guide the work. I'm like, I can
always use good Projectors in my business. Let me tell you. It's like, Help
me with all this all over the place thing I got going on in my head.

Julie:

But in one of the things that came out of doing this business program with
you recently was we did a practice where we kind of, we looked at the
different gates and I know that's going a little deeper into the chart, but
I recognized that I had multiple Gate 19, which is attunement, which is
when I work with people, every person I work with, my program is unique
because I'm tailoring it exactly to them because I get these hits of
exactly what they need in that moment and in that time. And I really feel
like there's other pieces of the chart that line up with that whole idea,
but that particular piece where it was shown over and over and over again,
really spoke to the gift of being able to hear clearly what that person
needs and to be able to give them what they need in that moment.

Rebecca:

Yeah. And the one thing you said about things showing up over and over
again, this is the beauty of Human Design. It tells a story. Your chart
tells a story and everybody's story is different, but it has the theme that
comes up over and over again. Multiple people in the Bloomed group have
said this same thing, like, Oh, that's that theme again. I'm like, Yes,
every time we go a layer deeper, we're still going to find the same themes
for you. It's super fascinating.

Julie:

Well, and even in kind of that major gate centers, the sun and the
conscious sun and the conscious moon, and I have this, what is called the
Freak Genius Channel that's kind of common-

Rebecca:

Freak to genius. Genius to freak, I think. Is it called Freak to Genius? I
don't know.

Julie:

I hope it's Freak to Genius. I'm going to choose to say it that way anyway,
but that Freak to Genius, it makes so much sense because in the space that
I'm in, there are people that are open and ready to hear what I have to
share. And there are other people that just aren't and that's totally okay.
But the message that I share is that hope is real. That anybody that is
ready and willing to heal can heal. And that sounds crazy. I lost two kids
in a rollover car accident, and I know for a lot of people that sounds
crazy. How could you heal from that? Because your kids aren't coming back.
But I feel such a connection to them on the other side. And I feel this, I
just, I have healed myself.

Julie:

When I say that, I mean I have healed, and so I know that it's true that we
can because I've experienced it. And even though we can't change
circumstances, we can change ourselves and through changing ourselves, we
get the experience, the understanding, the peace, the calm that is
associated with healing and that's a message that some people just aren't
ready for. And that's totally okay.

Rebecca:

Oh, totally. I found that in my grief coaching, too. It was like, There's
people that just aren't ready for this step. And I tried to, over time,
make sure I'm talking to the people who are ready for this step, but
there's always the ones that aren't ready, and just letting people be in
their own timing of recovery. You called it grief recovery one time when I
was talking to you. So I guess I always remember that word, grief recovery.
I never thought of it that way, but yeah.

Rebecca:

So tell us, because you opened the door to that, What do you do with your
clients now? Let's talk about that. You work one-on-one, right?

Julie:

I do. I do. I work with a few clients at a time, and I have a program where
I take them through the Hope Model of Healing, which is a model that I have
created and developed, and which includes Five Foundations of Growth that
bring us from that place of coping, where we start out, to a place of
rebuilding. And when we move through those steps and we've moved through
those steps of understanding and insight, because we can't go through grief
with the same amount of support that we had before something happened. I
had plenty of support for my regular day to day life until my kids died.
And then that support, while they're lovely people, wonderful family,
wonderful friends, was not adequate to help me to move forward.

Julie:

And so it's like we have to, I often say that grief is like being thrown
into the middle of a deep lake and you've never learned how to swim. And
imagine what that feels like...the hopelessness, the helplessness, the
despair, the desperation of being in the middle of the lake and not being
able to swim. And that's what it feels like. Like you're drowning and
there's no help and there's no, you don't know how to help yourself.

Julie:

And so what I've found is, as people move through those steps of growth,
the rebuilding becomes natural. Whereas, if they try to go from coping to
rebuilding, which I see so often, and then people get discouraged because
they're still carrying the heavy weight of grief forward into the
rebuilding. And it's just hard. And I think you've mentioned before, too,
that in your own journey, and I know you wrote about this in the book, you
used EFT and tapping. And I found that super useful with my clients, as
well, to use that.

Rebecca:

In fact, oh my gosh! Talking about tapping...This seems off topic, but I'm
actually going to get certified finally in tapping with a program that
comes with Human Design in tapping. I'm like, Oh, I have been looking for
tapping for years. I wanted to be certified in tapping long time ago, but I
think I was waiting for the right thing. And this is finally the right
thing. So yes, tapping helped me a lot. I had a tapping coach who helped me
just like layers and layers of anger. It was so fascinating of really, I
think it wasn't just the grief. There was a lot of the back stuff that came
up. Stuff from however many years ago, like from my childhood, whatever. So
fascinating how that works.

Julie:

Well, for sure. Because when we have, grief is the natural response to loss
and we think of grief as just associated with death, but it's associated
with all kinds of loss. If you were a child who didn't get the attention
that you wanted, or the love that you wanted, or the support that you
wanted in a certain way, or whatever that your experience was, that's a
certain type of loss that we carry grief with. And when we have a new loss,
especially a profound loss, it has a tendency to bring all that grief and
that loss from before that hasn't been resolved to the surface. So over the
years, it can become heavier and heavier and heavier with each loss. So we
may hit 40 or 50 and experience another loss and it seems like, Well, why
should I be so upset about this? Why am I reacting this way? Well, it's
likely because you've had other loss experiences that have stacked up. And
so now this is just what we might call the final straw.

Rebecca:

Add it to the other things.

Julie:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Rebecca:

So Julie, where can people find you if they want to learn more about your
grief coaching program?

Julie:

So I am at buildalifeafterloss.com and this Fall, I'm opening up a
membership program called the True Hope Club, and I'll be sharing all of
these tools and the model and the step-by-step and the application for
people to apply these things with the support of the group. And there'll be
coaching available on there and training. And I'm super excited about it.
I'm really excited about it because right now, like I said, I only work
with a few clients because of, there's only so much of me. We know how this
goes, don't we, Rebecca?

Rebecca:

We do. That's awesome.

Julie:

And I have at builtalifeafterloss.com/gift, I have a webinar recording that
you can watch and learn all about the model of healing and those Five
Foundations of Growth if you're interested in that. People can always reach
out to me directly at Julie@buildalifeafterloss.com.

Rebecca:

Thank you. This'll be super fun to see what you do with your group and your
business, as you grow it into a different way, that's going to work better
for your energy. That's amazing.

Julie:

It'll be fun.

Rebecca:

I'm excited to see it.

Julie:

I'm super excited. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm designed to be a
teacher and that's what I am, so.

Rebecca:

Definitely. Thank you for joining me today, Julie.

Julie:

Thanks.

Rebecca:

If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please go subscribe so that you get
notified of all the future goodies that are coming along. While you're
there, please leave me a review and let me know what you think. So excited
to share this with you and can't wait to talk to you next time. Bye!